Is there a less expensive alternative to Androgel

[j***@yahoo.com]

Was diagnosed with low testosterone(free was low and total was in the
very low normal range). Doctor prescribed Androgel which unfortunately
is not covered by my insurance(as none of the other testosterone
boosting products are). The pump is over $200 for the perscription.
This will break me if I use this product. Is there a less expensive
perscription medication that will raise my free and total testosterone
level?

Thanks.

[Wanderer]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Was diagnosed with low testosterone(free was low and total was in the
very low normal range). Doctor prescribed Androgel which unfortunately
is not covered by my insurance(as none of the other testosterone
boosting products are). The pump is over $200 for the perscription.
This will break me if I use this product. Is there a less expensive
perscription medication that will raise my free and total testosterone
level?
Thanks.

Testosterone Cypionate. You self-inject into the belly once a week. A
four-month supply costs me about $45 without insurance coverage. It also
works way better than Androgel, with far fewer estradiol problems (the
downside of Androgel).

Wanderer

[j***@yahoo.com]

Am going to doctor this week. Is there a recommended dosage?

Thanks.

Post by Wanderer

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Was diagnosed with low testosterone(free was low and total was in the
very low normal range). Doctor prescribed Androgel which unfortunately
is not covered by my insurance(as none of the other testosterone
boosting products are). The pump is over $200 for the perscription.
This will break me if I use this product. Is there a less expensive
perscription medication that will raise my free and total testosterone
level?
Thanks.

Testosterone Cypionate. You self-inject into the belly once a week. A
four-month supply costs me about $45 without insurance coverage. It also
works way better than Androgel, with far fewer estradiol problems (the
downside of Androgel).
Wanderer

[Muerta]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Am going to doctor this week. Is there a recommended dosage?

Maybe Wanderer will jump back in here, in the meantime I'll tell you that I
was on Androgel for 1 1/2 years, had several friends who tried it, and a
buddy that did Testim gel.

Personally, we have nothing good to say about gels, and I eventually
switched to testosterone cypionate, doing weekly injections.

That was 4 1/2 years ago, and I love it.

Normal dosage is around .6 ml of 200 mg/ml, which equates to about 120 mg
per week. That's far below recommended max dosage, and has worked out very
well.

[Wanderer]

Post by Muerta

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Am going to doctor this week. Is there a recommended dosage?

Maybe Wanderer will jump back in here, in the meantime I'll tell you that I
was on Androgel for 1 1/2 years, had several friends who tried it, and a
buddy that did Testim gel.
Personally, we have nothing good to say about gels, and I eventually
switched to testosterone cypionate, doing weekly injections.
That was 4 1/2 years ago, and I love it.
Normal dosage is around .6 ml of 200 mg/ml, which equates to about 120 mg
per week. That's far below recommended max dosage, and has worked out very
well.

Only one thing to add: I have varied my dosage between .3 and .6 mg/ml over
the years. Currently at .3 and doing fine. Somewhere between .5 and .6 is the
right starting dose IMHO... then taper down to wherever you are comfortable.

Wanderer

[unknown]

Post by Wanderer

Post by Muerta

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Am going to doctor this week. Is there a recommended dosage?

Maybe Wanderer will jump back in here, in the meantime I'll tell you that I
was on Androgel for 1 1/2 years, had several friends who tried it, and a
buddy that did Testim gel.
Personally, we have nothing good to say about gels, and I eventually
switched to testosterone cypionate, doing weekly injections.
That was 4 1/2 years ago, and I love it.
Normal dosage is around .6 ml of 200 mg/ml, which equates to about 120 mg
per week. That's far below recommended max dosage, and has worked out very
well.

Only one thing to add: I have varied my dosage between .3 and .6 mg/ml over
the years. Currently at .3 and doing fine. Somewhere between .5 and .6 is the
right starting dose IMHO... then taper down to wherever you are comfortable.
Wanderer

Jim,

I read through your last several postings. Please forgive me if I ask
something that has been covered.

Have you had other bloodwork done aside from T and free T?

My primary care physician found I had low testosterone and put me on
Androgel without doing any additional testing. Testosterone
replacement therapy didn't do anything for me.

Additional bloodwork revealed I had high prolactin. When that was
treated my T levels returned to normal levels on their own.

[j***@yahoo.com]

The only tests that were run were for the free and total testosterone.
I mistated earlier as I got the numbers today. Free was normal, but
the total was 261 on a scale that started at 350. A Prolactin test has
not been done. I go back in a couple of months to be rechecked and I
will inquire about prolactin, and estradiol seems to be another
important test.

Concerning the original topic, he gave me a perscription for the
testosterone but the injections he does are once monthly.

Post by unknown

Post by Wanderer

Post by Muerta

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Am going to doctor this week. Is there a recommended dosage?

Maybe Wanderer will jump back in here, in the meantime I'll tell you that I
was on Androgel for 1 1/2 years, had several friends who tried it, and a
buddy that did Testim gel.
Personally, we have nothing good to say about gels, and I eventually
switched to testosterone cypionate, doing weekly injections.
That was 4 1/2 years ago, and I love it.
Normal dosage is around .6 ml of 200 mg/ml, which equates to about 120 mg
per week. That's far below recommended max dosage, and has worked out very
well.

Only one thing to add: I have varied my dosage between .3 and .6 mg/ml over
the years. Currently at .3 and doing fine. Somewhere between .5 and .6 is the
right starting dose IMHO... then taper down to wherever you are comfortable.
Wanderer

Jim,
I read through your last several postings. Please forgive me if I ask
something that has been covered.
Have you had other bloodwork done aside from T and free T?
My primary care physician found I had low testosterone and put me on
Androgel without doing any additional testing. Testosterone
replacement therapy didn't do anything for me.
Additional bloodwork revealed I had high prolactin. When that was
treated my T levels returned to normal levels on their own.

[Muerta]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Concerning the original topic, he gave me a perscription for the
testosterone but the injections he does are once monthly.

As Wanderer pointed out, testing at 3 days and 3 weeks,or so. The reason
that we do weeklys is that you tend to peak around the 3rd day after
injection, and then decline. With the weeklys, I think it's around day 8
that you return to baseline.

Also, on a monthly shot, you are going to get hit with probably around 400
mgs of testosterone for a starting dose, and you have a much greater chance
of aromatazing that into much unwanted estrogen that doing smaller weekly
doses.

On a monthly, you are probably going to find that you are back on your face
by the end of week 3.

A friend of mines doc insisted on monthlys, and after 3 months he quit T
supplementation because he couldn't take the peaks and valleys anymore.

Good luck, and welcome to the group.

[unknown]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
The only tests that were run were for the free and total testosterone.
I mistated earlier as I got the numbers today. Free was normal, but
the total was 261 on a scale that started at 350. A Prolactin test has
not been done. I go back in a couple of months to be rechecked and I
will inquire about prolactin, and estradiol seems to be another
important test.
Concerning the original topic, he gave me a perscription for the
testosterone but the injections he does are once monthly.

If at all possible I'd try to get the other bloodwork done first,
before starting TRT.

My Testosterone level returned to normal levels after my prolactin was
brought under control.

I'm certain that if your prolactin is high that TRT will not be as
effective as it could be. And, as others have pointed out, TRT brings
with it some other things that need looking after. Things get more
complicated than they need to be.

At this point in my life I take two pills twice a week. I have blood
drawn every 5 months. I feel a helluva lot better than I used to.

As always, your mileage may vary, but, like I said, I think this is
something worth looking into.

It sounds like you are having the same experience, doctor-wise, that I
had. Testosterone came back low and the doc prescribed TRT right off
the bat. I wasted about a year trying, among other things, TRT,
changing my diet, exercising and some of the all-natural things,
before asking for additional bloodwork. The tests I asked for (based
on info gathered here):

SHBG, FSH, Testosterone, Estradiol, Prolactin, TSH, LH, Free T, Total
Estrogens and DHEA.

I honestly don't remember what they all indicate. Prolactin was my
problem, so I sort of homed in on it.

Hope all goes well.

[j***@yahoo.com]

Thanks D. I will certainly refer to this when I return in a couple of
months as all of these are probably worth looking into. For the first
couple of months, I will try the TRT and see how it goes.

Thanks.

Post by unknown

Post by j***@yahoo.com
The only tests that were run were for the free and total testosterone.
I mistated earlier as I got the numbers today. Free was normal, but
the total was 261 on a scale that started at 350. A Prolactin test has
not been done. I go back in a couple of months to be rechecked and I
will inquire about prolactin, and estradiol seems to be another
important test.
Concerning the original topic, he gave me a perscription for the
testosterone but the injections he does are once monthly.

If at all possible I'd try to get the other bloodwork done first,
before starting TRT.
My Testosterone level returned to normal levels after my prolactin was
brought under control.
I'm certain that if your prolactin is high that TRT will not be as
effective as it could be. And, as others have pointed out, TRT brings
with it some other things that need looking after. Things get more
complicated than they need to be.
At this point in my life I take two pills twice a week. I have blood
drawn every 5 months. I feel a helluva lot better than I used to.
As always, your mileage may vary, but, like I said, I think this is
something worth looking into.
It sounds like you are having the same experience, doctor-wise, that I
had. Testosterone came back low and the doc prescribed TRT right off
the bat. I wasted about a year trying, among other things, TRT,
changing my diet, exercising and some of the all-natural things,
before asking for additional bloodwork. The tests I asked for (based
SHBG, FSH, Testosterone, Estradiol, Prolactin, TSH, LH, Free T, Total
Estrogens and DHEA.
I honestly don't remember what they all indicate. Prolactin was my
problem, so I sort of homed in on it.
Hope all goes well.

[j***@yahoo.com]

Thanks for the help Wanderer. The doctor gave me a perscription for a
5cc vial. However, his dosage was going to be .25cc a month and then
recheck in a couple of months.

Post by Wanderer

Post by Muerta

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Am going to doctor this week. Is there a recommended dosage?

Maybe Wanderer will jump back in here, in the meantime I'll tell you that I
was on Androgel for 1 1/2 years, had several friends who tried it, and a
buddy that did Testim gel.
Personally, we have nothing good to say about gels, and I eventually
switched to testosterone cypionate, doing weekly injections.
That was 4 1/2 years ago, and I love it.
Normal dosage is around .6 ml of 200 mg/ml, which equates to about 120 mg
per week. That's far below recommended max dosage, and has worked out very
well.

Only one thing to add: I have varied my dosage between .3 and .6 mg/ml over
the years. Currently at .3 and doing fine. Somewhere between .5 and .6 is the
right starting dose IMHO... then taper down to wherever you are comfortable.
Wanderer

[Wanderer]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Thanks for the help Wanderer. The doctor gave me a perscription for a
5cc vial. However, his dosage was going to be .25cc a month and then
recheck in a couple of months.

Glad to be of help. My guess is that at this dosage and interval, you will
see some improvement for about four or five days after the shot, and then
bottom out for the next three weeks.

The regimen that has worked for me was developed by Dr. Eugene Shippen, the
closest thing we have to a medical guru on TRT. With his protocol, you do the
injections yourself, at home... so you buy the testosterone cypionate in a
much larger quantity (enough for four to six months), and withdraw it as
necessary. You inject into the belly, so the testosterone enters the
bloodstream slowly over the course of the week. You might want to try and put
your doctor in touch with Shippen. He's in Shillington, Pennsylvania. It
sounds as if your doctor is someone you can work with... he's willing to
listen to you... but he doesn't seem to have any particular expertise in TRT.
I also concur with the poster who suggested you get a full blood workup. You
also need to do continual blood work when you are on testosterone, and be
especially watchful for rising estradiol levels. For instance, with your
regimen, I'd want to get blood work done three days after the initial shot,
and then again in the third week -- to see if the monthly injection maintains
steady levels. FYI, my problem was the same as yours... marginally low total
testosterone, free T off the bottom of the chart. Good luck... let us know
how things progress.

Wanderer

[j***@yahoo.com]

I think my doctor is a good doctor and one who does listen. I don't
like the in and out in a flash doctors, and he is definetely not that
type. As a general practice doctor, he is certainly not an expert in
the area. He perscribed a 5cc vial so I have plenty of the medicine,
but at .25cc a month of the 200mg/ml testosterone cypionate, it seems
as he starts at a low dose. He wants to recheck the testosterone level
in a couple of months and I guess he will adjust from there. I will
certainly have the blood test done at the end of the month cycle. I
just can't see this dosage lasting all month, but I'm certainly no
expert on the topic. He also supplied me with some syringes along with
the vial of testosterone but his method was to inject in the glut./hip
area deep in the muscle.

The least frequency I have read of doing on the internet is every
couple of weeks, and I agree more with that theory than the once a
month. I will certainly get the blood test done toward the end of the
month.

Thanks again.

Post by Wanderer

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Thanks for the help Wanderer. The doctor gave me a perscription for a
5cc vial. However, his dosage was going to be .25cc a month and then
recheck in a couple of months.

Glad to be of help. My guess is that at this dosage and interval, you will
see some improvement for about four or five days after the shot, and then
bottom out for the next three weeks.
The regimen that has worked for me was developed by Dr. Eugene Shippen, the
closest thing we have to a medical guru on TRT. With his protocol, you do the
injections yourself, at home... so you buy the testosterone cypionate in a
much larger quantity (enough for four to six months), and withdraw it as
necessary. You inject into the belly, so the testosterone enters the
bloodstream slowly over the course of the week. You might want to try and put
your doctor in touch with Shippen. He's in Shillington, Pennsylvania. It
sounds as if your doctor is someone you can work with... he's willing to
listen to you... but he doesn't seem to have any particular expertise in TRT.
I also concur with the poster who suggested you get a full blood workup. You
also need to do continual blood work when you are on testosterone, and be
especially watchful for rising estradiol levels. For instance, with your
regimen, I'd want to get blood work done three days after the initial shot,
and then again in the third week -- to see if the monthly injection maintains
steady levels. FYI, my problem was the same as yours... marginally low total
testosterone, free T off the bottom of the chart. Good luck... let us know
how things progress.
Wanderer

[Muerta]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I think my doctor is a good doctor and one who does listen. I don't
like the in and out in a flash doctors, and he is definetely not that
type. As a general practice doctor, he is certainly not an expert in
the area. He perscribed a 5cc vial so I have plenty of the medicine,
but at .25cc a month of the 200mg/ml testosterone cypionate, it seems
as he starts at a low dose. He wants to recheck the testosterone level
in a couple of months and I guess he will adjust from there. I will
certainly have the blood test done at the end of the month cycle. I
just can't see this dosage lasting all month, but I'm certainly no
expert on the topic. He also supplied me with some syringes along with
the vial of testosterone but his method was to inject in the glut./hip
area deep in the muscle.
The least frequency I have read of doing on the internet is every
couple of weeks, and I agree more with that theory than the once a
month. I will certainly get the blood test done toward the end of the
month.
Thanks again.

Well, at least it's a start. .25 ml of 200mg/ml would be 50 mg of
testosterone for the month. Don't know if you've read the inserts, but
starting dose is 400 mg's a month.

Wanderer does the sub-q injection, which is much more convenient, I still do
the IM either in the anterior thigh, or my wife gives it to me in the glute.

Good luck.

[j***@yahoo.com]

I have a feeling that this dose will not be enough to overcome the
symptoms.(low libido, tired, moody. The other problems I am having are
a much weaker erection with cialis, levitra, or viagra than I had about
10 months ago, and a good deal of loss of sensitivity in my penis. Not
sure if the testosterone injection will help with the last two symptoms
or not.

Post by Muerta

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I think my doctor is a good doctor and one who does listen. I don't
like the in and out in a flash doctors, and he is definetely not that
type. As a general practice doctor, he is certainly not an expert in
the area. He perscribed a 5cc vial so I have plenty of the medicine,
but at .25cc a month of the 200mg/ml testosterone cypionate, it seems
as he starts at a low dose. He wants to recheck the testosterone level
in a couple of months and I guess he will adjust from there. I will
certainly have the blood test done at the end of the month cycle. I
just can't see this dosage lasting all month, but I'm certainly no
expert on the topic. He also supplied me with some syringes along with
the vial of testosterone but his method was to inject in the glut./hip
area deep in the muscle.
The least frequency I have read of doing on the internet is every
couple of weeks, and I agree more with that theory than the once a
month. I will certainly get the blood test done toward the end of the
month.
Thanks again.

Well, at least it's a start. .25 ml of 200mg/ml would be 50 mg of
testosterone for the month. Don't know if you've read the inserts, but
starting dose is 400 mg's a month.
Wanderer does the sub-q injection, which is much more convenient, I still do
the IM either in the anterior thigh, or my wife gives it to me in the glute.
Good luck.

[Muerta]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I have a feeling that this dose will not be enough to overcome the
symptoms.(low libido, tired, moody. The other problems I am having are
a much weaker erection with cialis, levitra, or viagra than I had about
10 months ago, and a good deal of loss of sensitivity in my penis. Not
sure if the testosterone injection will help with the last two symptoms
or not.

The symptoms you are describing are very common and most of us here on TRT
have had them.

The benefits of TRT for a person requiring it are numerous and much more
than just sexual. Having gone through that for much longer than I should
have, I sympathize. The diffrerence, once corrected, is a genuine
eye-opener. The moodiness is very common with high estrogen production,
which gels are for sure going to cause.

To address the dosage you were talking about, I'll tell you an experience of
mine a while back.

About every 6 months, my doc sends me for a blood pull and routine tests.
Among the tests I get are the T workup and estradiol (E2).

I went in, maybe a year ago, and I had been injecting around .6~.7 mgs, and
testing midweek at between 600-700 ng/dL, in T serum level. On that trip, I
went back to .5 mg, and my appointment was on day 6 after injection. I went
in, did the thing and got the blood pull.

Nurse calls me next week, and tells me to raise the T dosage because I came
in under 400 ng/dL.

Now, everyone is differant, but you're going to do.....what, .25 mg of
200mg/ml? I did 100 mgs, and tested low 6 days later, and you're going to do
50 mgs and get tested a few weeks later?

Realistic expectations, Jim. I would follow the docs orders, then have a
converstaion about it after the test results are in.

[tenkiller]

Why is it so difficult to get a good response from the gels? I have
used Androgel for about a year. I started with a T level less than 100
and it is now over 900. Two packets every other day. No pain or
anything.

What are the side effects of Androgel? My Urologist says that it
doesn't aromatize. So what is the problem?

10k

[Wanderer]

Post by tenkiller
Why is it so difficult to get a good response from the gels? I have
used Androgel for about a year. I started with a T level less than 100
and it is now over 900. Two packets every other day. No pain or
anything.
What are the side effects of Androgel? My Urologist says that it
doesn't aromatize. So what is the problem?
10k

If it works for you... solves your problems... does what you want it to do...
there is no problem... for you. Many users of Androgel experience poor
results, including severe aromatization and skin reactions. Be thankful
you're not one of them. Be well.

Wanderer

[Muerta]

Post by tenkiller
Why is it so difficult to get a good response from the gels? I have
used Androgel for about a year. I started with a T level less than 100
and it is now over 900. Two packets every other day. No pain or
anything.
What are the side effects of Androgel? My Urologist says that it
doesn't aromatize. So what is the problem?
10k

As Wanderer said, if it's working for you, be well.

Androgel has been out for a long time and has had many, many users. Drs. are
quick to prescribe it for TRT because of the ease of application and the
fact that it really has virtually no abuse potential.

Over time, a lot of users of Androgel, and Testim, have ended up here. Most
with the complaint of "I felt good for a week or two, then felt like crap
again". A pretty sure sign that estrogens are hitting the T receptors.

Very few people have been lucky enough to have the skin transferrence
capability that you have to get good results out of it.

Ther use to be (now deceased) a respected, learned, long time member of this
group that through determination, got his level up to 700 ng/dL by using the
bottom of a baby bottle to diligently apply his 2 packs to shaved ab and
shoulders. He found that the only was he could keep his estrogens down was
to also take arimidex.

I personally used Androgel for a year and a half, 10 grams a day, every day,
with the baby bottle appplication routine, and never got above 300 ng/dL.

My E2 never got below 175% of max during that time either.

For me, and some others, it didn't work out. $300 a month, and never got
there. I switched to T cypionate 4 1/2 years ago, and estrogens came into
normal ranges, and T level came up good, I still feel great.

Glad Androgel's working for you. Keep up the good work.

[Wanderer]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I have a feeling that this dose will not be enough to overcome the
symptoms.(low libido, tired, moody. The other problems I am having are
a much weaker erection with cialis, levitra, or viagra than I had about
10 months ago, and a good deal of loss of sensitivity in my penis. Not
sure if the testosterone injection will help with the last two symptoms
or not.

It occurred to me later that we never asked if you have tried HCG. This is
what Shippen typically starts TRT patients on. In essence, it encourages the
body to produce its own testosterone, so it doesn't have the same
testicle-shrinking effects of true TRT. It's a sub-Q injection of Novarel or
a similar drug three times a week, in the upper thigh, self-administered. It
worked for me initially, then the effects became less noticeable over time
and I graduated to full TRT, but depending on your circumstances, it could be
worth a try if you haven't already been there.

Wanderer

[j***@yahoo.com]

Hi Wanderer,
Have not tried the HCG. As far as sperm production or smaller
testicles, I am not concerned about that as my wife and I are on our
last child.(If that matters as far as testosterone injections are
concerned). I do agree though, the more natural the better.

Thanks.

Post by Wanderer

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I have a feeling that this dose will not be enough to overcome the
symptoms.(low libido, tired, moody. The other problems I am having are
a much weaker erection with cialis, levitra, or viagra than I had about
10 months ago, and a good deal of loss of sensitivity in my penis. Not
sure if the testosterone injection will help with the last two symptoms
or not.

It occurred to me later that we never asked if you have tried HCG. This is
what Shippen typically starts TRT patients on. In essence, it encourages the
body to produce its own testosterone, so it doesn't have the same
testicle-shrinking effects of true TRT. It's a sub-Q injection of Novarel or
a similar drug three times a week, in the upper thigh, self-administered. It
worked for me initially, then the effects became less noticeable over time
and I graduated to full TRT, but depending on your circumstances, it could be
worth a try if you haven't already been there.
Wanderer

[d***@gmail.com]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Was diagnosed with low testosterone(free was low and total was in the
very low normal range). Doctor prescribed Androgel which unfortunately
is not covered by my insurance(as none of the other testosterone
boosting products are). The pump is over $200 for the perscription.
This will break me if I use this product. Is there a less expensive
perscription medication that will raise my free and total testosterone
level?
Thanks.

I've read that Clomid will boost T levels with very few side effects.

[M***@HorribleISP.gov]

Post by d***@gmail.com

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Was diagnosed with low testosterone(free was low and total was in the
very low normal range). Doctor prescribed Androgel which unfortunately
is not covered by my insurance(as none of the other testosterone
boosting products are). The pump is over $200 for the perscription.
This will break me if I use this product. Is there a less expensive
perscription medication that will raise my free and total testosterone
level?
Thanks.

I've read that Clomid will boost T levels with very few side effects.

You do realize that the original message is dated 2006!

Anyway for anyone else who's reading there's a generic testosterone
gel now available at a much cheaper price. It's even lower than my
co-pay was for Androgel. Look up Drugs.com or RxList.com.

[d***@gmail.com]

I tried Andro-Gel for about 6-8 months. I did not help testosterone (free) stayed about( 200-220) My doctor started me on the Dr Max Powers Testosterone Boost for about 3 months. I have felt morning wood and had increases in strength at the gym. Dr. Max Powers Test Boost is actually over the counter, and you can buy online. Worked way better than Andro-gel for me in terms of gym and strength of erections.